Pivot / Non-Pivot Stroke Delivery - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Pivot / Non-Pivot Stroke Delivery

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Old 12-05-2005, 07:30 PM
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Power Package Delivery
Originally Posted by tongzilla

Pivot / Non-Pivot Stroke Delivery may be found in 6-K-0 and 6-L-0.

How do we decide which one to use? Does it differ for Swinging and Hitting? Can you use a Pivot Stroke Delivery on the Backstroke, and a non-Pivot Stroke Delivery on the Downstroke, and vice versa?
Power Package Delivery refers to the Delivery of the Assembled and Loaded Power Package Down Plane to Release. Hence, it is a Downstroke concept, not a Backstroke concept.

The use of a Pivot Stroke automatically implies the use of a Pivot Delivery. Only where the Pivot Motion is incidental would it not be used to Deliver the Power Package. That is because both Hitters and Swingers properly utilize the Pivot to overcome the Clubhead Inertia during the Start Down. In other words, the Body Pulls the Arms and Club into the Downstroke.

However, once the Lag has been Loaded and the Right Shoulder has reached top speed, Muscular Thrust (Right Arm Drive-Out Action) takes over for Hitters and Centrifugal Force (Left Arm Throw-Out Action) takes over for Swingers. In other words, the Hitter uses the Body as a 'backstop' (the equal-and-opposite reaction) for their triceps-driven Right Arm. The Swinger, on the other hand, continues to use the rotary motion of the Pivot to Accelerate the Left Arm (via Momentum Transfer).
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
That is because both Hitters and Swingers properly utilize the Pivot to overcome the Clubhead Inertia during the Start Down. In other words, the Body Pulls the Arms and Club into the Downstroke.

And yet the Hitter is Drive Loading and the Swinger is Drag Loading, even though both have this initial Pull by the Body (starting from the Feet -- gear train effect) at Startdown?

Going off a tangent here because I have many thoughts...get back on topic later
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tongzilla
And yet the Hitter is Drive Loading and the Swinger is Drag Loading, even though both have this initial Pull by the Body (starting from the Feet -- gear train effect) at Startdown?

Going off a tangent here because I have many thoughts...get back on topic later
Yes, the initial start down for the Hitter and Swinger is the same. Once the hip slides and the right shoulder sets to become either a backboard or a gryo.

Hurry back I can't wait to hear what you are thinking.
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:59 PM
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Lag Loading In Pivot Strokes
Originally Posted by tongzilla

And yet the Hitter is Drive Loading and the Swinger is Drag Loading, even though both have this initial Pull by the Body (starting from the Feet -- gear train effect) at Startdown?
Yes, both Hitter and Swinger use Pivot Lag (Hips lead Shoulders in the Downstroke) to Load the Power Package (via the On Plane Right Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4).

The essential difference between the two is what is being Loaded and how. The Hitter Loads the Right Triceps to Drive the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Hands at the Top to resist the motion of the Backstroke Turn per 7-19-1. The Swinger Loads the Left Wrist to Drag the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Shoulder Thrust to Snap the Club onto the Lag Pressure Point per 7-19-3.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:01 AM
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"In other words, the Hitter uses the Body as a 'backstop' (the equal-and-opposite reaction) for their triceps-driven Right Arm."

Lynn,

Didn't get this at first....but it reminds me of an explaination Ted (I think) gave.

He compared the right shoulder's role (in Hitting) to jumping off the hood of a moving car vs. jumping off a stationary car.....he said you'll obviously go further if you jump off the moving car. Makes sense.

I hope I even got that analogy right....lol.

I thought it was a great analogy when I heard it....I feel the need to share.
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Old 12-07-2005, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
Yes, both Hitter and Swinger use Pivot Lag (Hips lead Shoulders in the Downstroke) to Load the Power Package (via the On Plane Right Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4).

The essential difference between the two is what is being Loaded and how. The Hitter Loads the Right Triceps to Drive the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Hands at the Top to resist the motion of the Backstroke Turn per 7-19-1. The Swinger Loads the Left Wrist to Drag the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Shoulder Thrust to Snap the Club onto the Lag Pressure Point per 7-19-3.
Thanks Yoda, but...

Why is Pressure Point #4 not included in the Basic Hitting Pattern (12-1-0) since, like you have mentioned, Hitters also utilise Pivot Lag?
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Old 12-07-2005, 11:19 PM
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Three Accumulators...Not Four
Originally Posted by tongzilla

Thanks Yoda, but...

Why is Pressure Point #4 not included in the Basic Hitting Pattern (12-1-0) since, like you have mentioned, Hitters also utilise Pivot Lag?
The 12-1-0 Pattern is a Three-Accumulator Stroke. It is not for maximum Power.
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Old 12-08-2005, 04:33 AM
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My new conclusions
Originally Posted by Yoda
The 12-1-0 Pattern is a Three-Accumulator Stroke. It is not for maximum Power.
I see! I thought there is a bit more to using Accumulator #4 than merely utilising Pivot Lag. But no, so...

I have now come to a new conclusion that the 3-Barrel Hitting Pattern in 12-1-0 is inferior in terms of distance compared with the 3-Barrel Swinging Pattern in 12-2-0. Why? Geometrically, the effective Swing Radius is shortened by about four feet (or whatever the distance between your Shoulder and Feet). That is clearly a lot! Physics-wise, the Pivot Power supplying Momentum Transfer is lost. This places a lot of burden on Accumulator #1 which cannot fully compensate for all of the aforementioned factors.

Therefore, everything being roughly equal, if a competent Hitter wants to match the competitive and well-grooved 3-Barrel Swinger, he must use a 4-Barrel Stroke. Otherwise, he will start falling behind!



(PS: I do not want this thread to have anything to do with the Right Arm Swing...looking at no one in particular )
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tongzilla
I see! I thought there is a bit more to using Accumulator #4 than merely utilising Pivot Lag. But no, so...

I have now come to a new conclusion that the 3-Barrel Hitting Pattern in 12-1-0 is inferior in terms of distance compared with the 3-Barrel Swinging Pattern in 12-2-0. Why? Geometrically, the effective Swing Radius is shortened by about four feet (or whatever the distance between your Shoulder and Feet). That is clearly a lot! Physics-wise, the Pivot Power supplying Momentum Transfer is lost. This places a lot of burden on Accumulator #1 which cannot fully compensate for all of the aforementioned factors.

Therefore, everything being roughly equal, if a competent Hitter wants to match the competitive and well-grooved 3-Barrel Swinger, he must use a 4-Barrel Stroke. Otherwise, he will start falling behind!



(PS: I do not want this thread to have anything to do with the Right Arm Swing...looking at no one in particular )
Wonder what Mr. K's input would be here? Tong are you talking 4 Barrel Stroke for the YOU at the "MASTER's level of execution?"

Or the less efficient like . . . well . . . 12 piece bucket?


10-4-D FOUR BARREL This high performance Four Accumulator Combination can produce many problems during its mastery by the player. But it can make the difference in top competition. Well controlled Double or Triple Barrel Combinations have little to fear from the Four Barrel Combination that is less than fully mastered.

I reckon it depends on who's pulling the trigger on the shotgun . . .

B
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
Yes, both Hitter and Swinger use Pivot Lag (Hips lead Shoulders in the Downstroke) to Load the Power Package (via the On Plane Right Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4).

The essential difference between the two is what is being Loaded and how. The Hitter Loads the Right Triceps to Drive the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Hands at the Top to resist the motion of the Backstroke Turn per 7-19-1. The Swinger Loads the Left Wrist to Drag the Club through Impact, and he does so by using the Shoulder Thrust to Snap the Club onto the Lag Pressure Point per 7-19-3.
Two thoughts/questions..

1. Isn't the above set up by the golfers alignment/position of the right forearm at the Top of the stroke? It as I think I understand it differentiates a hitter / swinger and how they can load?

2. Swinging vs Hitting I don't beleive it is accurate to say one is longer than the other. It may be in theory but in reality I beleive Mr. K. pointed out back in 1-D (Structure) which may be the most effective a golfer.
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